Tushar Gandhi in Conversation with Sangeeta Sharma

Tushar Gandhi

“We must change and by example inspire humankind to change”

---Tushar Gandhi on his great legacy and things Gandhian in the new millennium

(The Mumbai-based great grandson of the Father of the Nation, Tushar Gandhi, a crusader for the promotion of Bapu’s teachings, discusses many important things in this email interview with Setu’s senior editor Sangeeta Sharma in a candid mood.)

 

Sangeeta Sharma

Q1. Being the great grandson of Mahatma Gandhi, you have a unique lineage. Please share with us the kind of environment you were nurtured in and the conversations you had in your household during your childhood and youth. How did they help in shaping your personality and thought-processes over the years?

A. I do have a unique lineage, but I know that my biological link is merely an accident of birth. It does not instil any unique abilities in me and thus it does not make me special. I believe that one needs to earn respect through one’s work and not claim it because of birth. I know that, like the beautiful verse, 'There are miles before I sleep....' I have lots to achieve before I can honestly claim the respect and admiration of society. I grew up in a household steeped in the Gandhian ethos since my father and grandmother had both lived in the Ashrams of Ba and Bapu and had interacted closely with them, and my grandparents and my father and his sisters had lived at Phoenix Ashram in South Africa and I too had the privilege to live at Phoenix with my grandmother for about one and half years in my childhood. I was fortunate to learn about both my ancestors first hand from my elders through narration of their interactions and observations at close quarters and experience Ashram life in my childhood. I was made to understand that I was not 'special' and must not claim any privileges because of the lineage I was part of and was also told that I did not have to live up to the expectations of people and society, because they would constantly audit me and weigh me in the scales of my illustrious ancestors. My grandmother told me that none of us could possibly do anything to add to the glory of our ancestors but we had the responsibility to ensure that our actions did not tarnish their image. On growing up I have realised that even if I erred the infamy would be mine and would not diminish the glorious sterling reputation of Ba and Bapu. I do not live up to the expectations of society. I know I disappoint many, to them I apologise with humility, but I live my life on my own terms.

 

Q2. Gandhi Jayanti is observed as a national holiday, marked by prayer services and tributes across India. Do you think the message of the Mahatma can be amplified and enhanced?

A. I am certain Bapu would not have wanted a day to be wasted by holiday in his memory. I too do not accept this. As a matter of fact, if at all his birthday is to be commemorated it should be by spending it in the service of humanity. In serving those who are underprivileged, those who are oppressed and for those who are being persecuted. That alone would be a true tribute to Bapu. Bapu's message can only be vitalised and amplified through selfless service and unselfish work, it can never be enhanced by official acts or ritualistic commemorations. During his life time, he observed silence, prayed and spun Khadi the whole day on his birth anniversary, that is why in Gujarati his birthday is called Rentiya Baras.

 

Q3. In the new millennium, an upsurge was discerned in the setting up of UGC-sponsored Gandhian Studies Centres across Indian colleges and universities. Are you happy with the way these bodies are functioning and propagating Gandhian philosophy?

 A. UGC sponsored Gandhi Study Centres were a waste of resources. I say this because I had visited many such centres and all they did was a reluctant utilisation of the prescribed programs by the UGC for the utilisation of grants. They would do nothing all year round and then as the year came to an end, they would hold farcical conferences where pathetic academic papers were presented. I had criticised it and written to the UPA Government to shut it down. Finally, The NDA Government promptly shut down the program on assuming office in 2014, although they have done it in pursuance of their anti-Gandhi ideology, but that is their only action I support. Now, some Universities are maintaining such centres through their own fundings and they are doing a much better job of propagating the ideology and application of Bapu's legacy, much better than the UGC funded Gandhian Study Centres ever did.

 

 

Q4. How can the philosophy of the apostle of peace, who advocated all his life the credo of love and non-violence, be made more relevant in an age of sectarian violence, close-mind and war?

A. Bapu's legacy can only be made more relevant in its study, understanding, adoption and by individuals becoming its live examples. One needs to understand the true meaning of nonviolence. Not merely the absence of conflict or war but the expunging of violence in every form, suspicion, prejudice, exclusion, hate, greed, waste and excessive consumption. Only when individuals quell these passive forms of violence, life style will we be able to establish a truly nonviolent world living in peace within and peace in society. Peace with fellow humans and in peace with every life form and a genuine respect for their right to existence and respecting their share of the natural resources, and the absence of violence against ecology and environment.

 

Q5. The life-long lessons you have learnt from Bapu that can impact lives across the world?

A. The greatest lesson that I learned from my parents and grandmother was to always be true to oneself. Untruth begins by deceiving ourselves first. The other lesson I imbibed was unflinching perseverance, never giving up on one's objectives and belief and fighting on till one's end or till the objective is achieved. Understanding, accepting and respecting the right of others to be different. Not fighting the individual but fighting against the ideology they represent and practice. Reform, not revenge.

 

Q6. Please share with us the lesser-known details about the Father of the Nation.

A. Bapu lived such a transparent and open life that there is hardly any aspect of his life that has not been revealed to the public, so it becomes almost impossible to narrate any new untold facet of his personality. A story I find inspiring which was part of my childhood involves my father. Since my grandparents lived in South Africa, they brought up their children in South Africa. So the family would visit Ba and Bapu every few years. They had to travel by ship from South Africa to India. Many a time, the children would be sent ahead and my grandparents would follow later. This incident happened at Seva Gram, Wardha when my father Arun was staying with Bapu. He had been gifted a box camera and a few rolls of film. So he became an avid photographer. He expressed his desire to photograph Bapu. Bapu charged for his photograph and the collected money was deposited in the Harijan Fund. So he told my father that he would pose for a photograph only after my father paid the fee. My father claimed his right to photograph his grandfather without having to pay the fee. Bapu refused. One afternoon, when Bapu was conferring with the AICC leadership my father thought this was his opportunity to take a photograph from hiding and he did so. Either Bapu noticed or someone informed him. So that evening, he made my father responsible to collect all the autograph and photograph requests, collect the requisite fees, account for all of it and give it to him. When my father presented the account and the amount collected, Bapu accused him of cheating and said that the money was short for the fees of a photograph taken, eventually my father confessed that he had taken a photograph and had not included it in the account submitted and refused to pay the fees and also informed Bapu that he did not have funds to pay the fees. Bapu confiscated my father's camera. And only gave it back after my grandfather paid the required four rupees. My father got his camera back but was very disappointed that his grandfather did not accord him his right as a grandson. Bapu explained to my father that rules once enforced must, in all circumstances, be upheld and no exceptions be made for anyone only then their sanctity and importance are maintained. This instilled the importance of obeying rules in my father and it was passed on to me too.

 

Q7. What have been your experiences as a Gandhian and a crusader for passionately promoting his philosophy and teachings across India and outside.

A. Since the past three decades India has drifted away from Gandhi and his ideology. We now live in an India where Gandhi-hate and rejection is more evident. I blame myself and the whole community of Gandhians for this drift rather than the ideology of his murderers, the RSS, who ever since his murder, has insidiously orchestrated and amplified a campaign of misinformation about Bapu which has fuelled the Gandhi hate, evident now. Gandhians are to be blamed since they turned the Gandhi legacy into a private domain and zealously guarded it as if it was their personal fief, they also reduced it to become a mere ritual, rather than a dynamic tool of social engineering. A weapon for love, understanding and acceptance and an ideal and example of sustainable life style. Today Gandhi worship is a mere ritual and its observance is a pretence, even the Prime Minister's show of Gandhi worship is nothing but a show for PR. While in India the Gandhi legacy has been reduced to a mere insincere ritual, abroad there is a study of his philosophy, ideology and practice from the objective of its implementation in the current situation, the movement of sustainable, less consumptive and self-reliant, local centric life style has evolved from Bapu's ideology of Swadeshi and minimalist life style.

 

Q8. Mahatma Gandhi is known for his writings also. Which book by him has left the strongest impression on you?

A. Two books that I find to be indispensable in the discovery of Bapu are 'Hind Swaraj', which is his seminal work and the foundation of his belief and practice and his autobiography, 'The story of My Experiments with Truth'. For me these two books are indispensable in my quest to discover and understand my ancestor.

 

Q9. How do you view the future of Gandhian philosophy in the global context, especially the components of truth, ahimsa, peace and satyagraha as important strategies of public mobilisation?

A. I believe these to be indispensable, timeless and of grave importance today to ensure the survival of humankind. Today, when strife threatens our very existence, we are a mere button’s push away from annihilation and dangerously the button is falling in the hands of unstable and irresponsible autocrats, this puts our existence in jeopardy. Democracies are in decline where autocrats use the democratic system to grab power and then subjugate the democratic ideal and function like autocrats. Institutions that are supposed to safeguard the democratic institution are being systematically maligned and made ineffectual, the system of debate and discussion are being subverted and a system of autocratic imposition is becoming more and more prevalent. Under these circumstances, citizens will have to become guardians of Democracy and safeguard it on the streets. Civil disobedience on a mass scale is the only alternative to authoritarian subversion of Democracy. Gandhi, King and Mandela are indispensable icons that inspire people's resistance to autocracy.

 

Q10. Any message?

A. I do not consider myself to give any message as yet. I myself am in the quest of discovery. But if at all I were to give a message it would be to reiterate the slogan my father derived from the teachings of his grandfather and which today has become synonymous with Bapu globally, 'Be the change.' We must change and by example inspire humankind to change.

 

Thank you.

---

Setu, October 2024